IN THE COUNTY COURT OF VICTORIA
AT Melbourne
CRIMINAL DIVISION	Revised
Not Restricted
Suitable for Publication	
Case No. CR-23-00571

DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS		
		
v		
		
XENIA TITAR		

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JUDGE:	KARAPANAGIOTIDIS	
WHERE HELD:	Melbourne	
DATE OF HEARING:	14 September 2023	
DATE OF SENTENCE:	24 November 2023	
CASE MAY BE CITED AS:	DPP v Titar	
MEDIUM NEUTRAL CITATION:	[2023] VCC 2204		

REASONS FOR SENTENCE
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Subject:	CRIMINAL LAW – Sentence
Catchwords: 	Plea of guilty – Obtaining a financial advantage by deception – Substantial delay – Willing to make restitution – Bugmy – Excellent prospects of rehabilitation 
Legislation Cited:	ss 6AAA, 18, 40 Sentencing Act 1991.
Cases Cited:	Boulton v The Queen [2014] VSCA 342; Bugmy v The Queen [2013] HCA 37.
Sentence:	Imprisonment for a period of 5 months, combined with a Community Correction order for a period of 24 months

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APPEARANCES:
	Counsel	Solicitors	
For the DPP	Mr M. Roper	Office of Public Prosecutions	
			
For the Accused	Mr L. Richter	Galbally Parker Criminal Lawyers	

HER HONOUR:

1	Xenia Titar, you have pleaded guilty to five charges of obtaining a financial advantage by deception.
Circumstances of offending
2	At the time of the offending, you were employed as Chief Financial Controller by JDN Monocrane Pty Ltd, a business located in Dandenong that specialises in the construction of overhead travelling cranes, commencing on 1 February 2016.
3	You were employed by Colin Smith the CEO of the company on a full-time basis with an annual salary of $110,000.
4	The company used a third-party, a company known as Quicksuper, to complete the distribution of all its superannuation payments. JDN Monocrane created files from their payroll system, which were then uploaded to Quicksuper, which supplies it with the distribution split for each employee's amounts and the specified superannuation fund. 
5	In July 2019, Lerna Demircan commenced working for JDN Monocrane and met with you to conduct a handover of the company’s payroll system oversight.  On 5 July, 2019, you resigned from the company and Ms Demircan assumed oversight of the payroll system while the company searched for a replacement Chief Financial Controller. Earlier, she had attempted to process your termination payment and saw that you had already processed the payment yourself.
6	On 5 August 2019 JDN Monocrane employed a new Company Accountant, Greg Nixon. He conducted an internal audit of the company payroll systems starting with the PAYG Summaries at the end of the financial year and noticed there were none for you.
7	Mr Nixon conducted further checks of the payroll system and found a PAYG Summary which you had prepared for yourself. As the total amounts shown were not what he had expected, Mr Nixon conducted further checks into your pay records.
8	Mr Nixon found that part of your salary had an amount that reduced your taxable income by an amount that was classified as 'Otherwise Deductible'. The amounts included from the 'Otherwise Deductible' adjustments were paid as a separate bank transfer from the rest of the payroll system. These transactions reduced the amount of tax that you paid and were not shown on your PAYG Summary.
9	Mr Nixon subsequently reviewed the superannuation payments which revealed the amounts that were paid to your superannuation fund, as recorded on payroll were not correct. Mr Nixon confirmed that the amounts recorded on the payroll system were substantially less than the amounts that were getting paid to Quicksuper.
10	Mr Nixon compiled a report out of the payroll system, to compare your superannuation payments for the total period of your employment to the amounts paid to Quicksuper. He compared the amounts from the Micropay system and matched them against the amounts included in the Quicksuper reports to establish the amounts of the differences. He also confirmed the total amounts from the Quicksuper report matched the amounts that came out of JDN Monocrane's business account.
11	Mr Nixon confirmed the report also showed a manual adjustment to your annual leave entitlements, which had been conducted without authorisation or justification. This added 100 hours to your annual leave entitlements, equating to $4,239 of your salary and $402.70 of superannuation payments (Charge 1 – Obtain Financial Advantage by Deception). At the conclusion of the internal audit Mr Nixon produced his findings to Smith with supporting documentation.
12	Mr Smith subsequently asked Ms Demircan to run reports of Quicksuper to ascertain what funds had been paid each month during your employment, as well as payroll reports of your previous employee earnings to compare the figures between the superannuation totals.
13	The report prepared by Ms Demircan showed that the figures in your payroll file were correct however sums transferred from JDN Monocrane to Quicksuper were significantly overpaid. At the conclusion of the internal audit it was revealed that during your term of employment with JDN Monocrane from 17 June 2016 to 25 June 2019, you had on 37 occasions transferred a total of $486,500 in excess of your payroll entitlements to your self-managed superannuation fund as well as unauthorised additions of 100 hours to your annual leave, which equates to $4,239 of your salary and $402.70 of superannuation payments to your self-managed superannuation fund you were not entitled to receive. Details of the individual excess transfers are set out in Schedules that are attached to the indictment. (Charge 2-5  Obtaining a Financial Advantage by Deception)
14	On 4 August 2020 Mr Smith and Nixon attended at your residential address in Mentone, Victoria to serve you a letter of demand. The letter of demand outlined JDN Monocrane's discovery of the unauthorised transfers with a demand made to you that all monies be returned swiftly, with a deadline being 5 August 2020. Mr Smith placed the letter of demand in your letterbox. During their attendance, you arrived home and on seeing them you drove away. Mr Smith asked 'Why would you do such a thing?' and you replied 'Mental health'.  
15	On 19 August 2020, Mr Smith attended at the Dandenong police station to report the matter, as you had not contacted JDN Monocrane in relation to returning the funds.
16	During the internal audit of JDN Monocrane's payroll system, payment spreadsheets were created to show evidence of the total amount of transfers from the business account of JDN Monocrane to Quicksuper. The total amount of JDN Monocrane superannuation overpayments to your self-managed superannuation funds amounted to some $491,141.70.  
17	On 8 October 2020 Detective Senior Constable Derek Gardam obtained bank records relating to Macquarie Bank self-managed Take Off Superannuation fund, which detailed the account statements from 1 February 2016 to 29 August 2019, which revealed 43 deposits from Quicksuper into your and your mother's account. The individual payments are outlined in paragraph [18] of the prosecution opening.
18	Further, what I have just referred to is a summary, the full details of your offending that I sentence you upon are contained in the prosecution opening that were exhibited on your plea.
19	All deposits into the account match the dates and amounts of the payments sent from Quicksuper, as referenced above. This indicates you had received the funds into your self-managed superannuation fund and then deposited them into other accounts referenced in the bank statements as 'Xenia TITAR' and 'L.TITAR'.
Victim impact
20	Ms Titar, your offending has had far reaching and serious consequences. In his victim impact statement, Mr Smith describes the 'profound impact on the organisation, stripping "investable profit" from ourselves and detrimentally affecting our employees, and the overall function of our business’. He states that your breach of trust has created a sense of uncertainty and unease in the company.  Further:
'The stolen monies represented the hard work, dedication and sacrifices made by our employees and company owners. The thefts have caused significant distress to those who contributed their time and effort to build the company. It has created a sense of violation.'
21	In sentencing you, Ms Titar, I take into account the impact of your offending. 
Gravity of offending
22	The charges you have pleaded guilty to are serious, as indicated by their maximum penalties. Your offending was relatively sophisticated, calculated, planned and persistent.  Your offending spans over a three year period from June 2016 to 2019.  Further, you were in a position of trust within the victim company and you abused that trust. Your moral culpability is high.  The amount of each transaction is outlined in the schedules and the totality of your offending is significant. Also, Charges 2-5 are rolled up charges, and the Court must consider all of the circumstances of the offending.  
Procedural history
23	As for the chronology in this matter, I have referred already to some relevant dates. 
24	On 19 August 2020, Mr Smith attended at the Dandenong police station to report the matter. 
25	On 17 December 2021, police attended at an address in New South Wales where you were residing and arrested you. You were conveyed to the Albury police station and an extradition hearing was heard at the Albury Magistrates' Court. Subsequently, you were subsequently extradited to Victoria and conveyed to Wodonga police station where you declined to be interviewed and you spent three nights in custody during this process. 
26	On 19 April 2022 your case was listed for committal case conference and there were a number of adjournments to allow for the related civil proceedings to finalise and for forensic reports to be obtained.  
27	On 11 April 2023 your case proceeded as a straight hand up brief, where you entered pleas of guilty.  
28	On 14 September 2023 you were arraigned and the matter proceeded as a plea.  Sentencing was deferred to allow you to undertake, and recover from, your surgical procedure for your Carpal Tunnel Syndrome which had been arranged.   
Delay 
29	There has been a substantial delay between the detection and then the report of the matter to the police and the finalisation of your case.  The justification for taking delay into account as a mitigating factor, rests upon the twin considerations of rehabilitation and fairness as the higher courts have previously stated. First and perhaps foremost where there has been a relatively lengthy process of rehabilitation since the offending, being a process in which the community has a vested interest, the sentence should not jeopardise the continued development of this process but should be tailored to ensure as much as possible that the offender has the opportunity to complete the process of rehabilitation. Secondly, from the point of view of fairness to the offender, the sentence should reflect the fact that the matter has been hanging over his or her head for some time, thereby keeping the offender in a state of suspense as to what will happen to him or her.  
30	In your case, Ms Titar, I take into account the uncertainty of outcome and also the substantial rehabilitative efforts that you have made during this period of time, which I’ll return to shortly.
Plea of guilty
31	Your plea of guilty was offered at the earliest practicable opportunity.  Your plea of guilty is important for its utilitarian value and given that it was entered at a time where the Courts were still affected by the impact of the pandemic, on our system and processes. It will result in a greater amelioration of sentence. Your plea of guilty indicates your willingness to facilitate the course of justice and to accept responsibility for your offending.  I also accept that it is demonstrative of remorse.  As you put it, in plain terms to psychologist Mr David Ball, ‘my actions were abhorrent and a significant breach of the implied trust and responsibility that I was afforded.  For this I am truly sorry.’  The character references tendered on your behalf also collectively speak of your remorse.
Restitution
32	You have been willing to make restitution.  To facilitate this having deposited the full amount in your solicitors trust account for the purpose of payment.  However, you have not been able to make the actual payment because interest is being claimed which is a point of contention, as further discussed today.  The parties are in agreement that for the purposes of this hearing I should proceed on the basis that full restitution, for the amount as it pertains to these charges, has been offered and is ready to be paid.   
33	In order to raise the funds you have sold your home and two investment properties; reclaiming the equity to make the repayments.  I note that the home you were living in was purchased in 2013, before the offending commenced.  In 2017 you sold and purchased two further investment properties.  
34	Clearly the loss suffered by JDN Monocrane and its people cannot simply be measured in monetary terms. Also, I consider that I should proceed cautiously in my consideration of the issue of restitution and the weight to be given to it. In all the circumstances, I accept in your case that it is an important mitigating factor and it is a further indication of your contrition and remorse.
Personal circumstances
35	You are presently 41 years of age. 
36	You were born into a dysfunctional family.  Your father was violent and abusive towards your mother and they separated when you were in primary school.  You have two younger sisters. At the hands of your father, over the course of years, you were exposed and subjected to family violence and significant multi-faceted abuse, as detailed in the report of Mr Ball of 14 August 2023. The details in the report are harrowing.  You never complained to the police.  Your sister did, at an earlier stage, and found the experience very difficult which deterred you from following such a path.  It is only in more recent times that you have obtained proper psychological treatment.  
37	You left home at the age of 17, never to return. You are estranged from your sisters but remain in contact with your mother.  Your relationship with your mother is understandably a complex one.  She left you in the care of your father from a very young age.  She apparently has an acquired brain injury and currently resides in a care home in Orange, NSW.
38	Despite your extraordinarily difficult upbringing and personal life, you managed to complete your education and begin work as an accountant. You have a solid work history.  Your work as an accountant commenced in 2006 and continued until you left the victim employer in this matter in 2019. You have never offended against any previous employer. 
39	You formed your first serious relationship at about the age of 19. It was a physically and emotionally abusive one. Following this, you were in a relationship for about nine years until the age of 30. This relationship was marred by drug use and financial reliance by your partner but was not otherwise abusive. You were single throughout the period of this offending but commenced a new relationship shortly afterwards. The third relationship was also emotionally, physically and economically abusive.  Your friend, Ms Donna Knight, in her letter refers to seeing the aftermath of the breakup in early 2023 including horrible injuries caused to you and significant damage to your property.  
40	Upon leaving JDN Monocrane, you threw herself into a new career, learning to be a carpenter, by initially watching YouTube videos and then purchasing the tools necessary and practicing on your home.  You participated in the assessment and testing necessary to obtain trade qualifications as a carpenter. You have continued as a carpenter/builder in the construction industry, including as a site supervisor for a small team. You have also rebuilt a life for yourself in the Albury region.
41	You have a prior criminal history, but it is of limited relevance. The most recent matters are from 10 years ago and concern road safety offences.  The dishonesty related matters in your history date back to 2001 and 2003.  
42	You have never used illicit substances though you have abused prescription medication in the past and now only take it as prescribed.  You also drink as a means of managing your stress.  You report drinking only a glass of wine on the nights where you work and in between you drink much larger amounts.  
Mental health
43	Mr Ball suggests that alcohol and prescription medication have been used by you as a coping strategy and to 'block out the memories'.  
44	Based on your personal history, clinical interview and medical records, Mr Ball was of the opinion that you satisfy the diagnostic criteria for post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).  He considers that your 'complex PTSD has emanated from the long term abuse you experienced as a child'. He also opines that you meet the diagnostic criteria for persistent depressive disorder, conditions which have also likely emanated from your dysfunctional and abusive family history.  Mr Ball also opines that 'incarceration is likely to impede the progress [you have] made in psychological treatment to date and may further contribute to [your] complex trauma'.  
45	Your Counsel, Mr Richter, submitted that limbs 2, 5 and 6 of Verdins apply.  I take into account your conditions in sentencing you and I accept, on the evidence, that it is likely that a prison sentence will weigh more heavily on you then it would a person in 'normal health' and that there is a real risk it will exacerbate your complex trauma and conditions.  
46	I also take into account your various physical health issues.  As already noted, you have recently had surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome.
47	Also, you have been diagnosed with a hernia, which affects your gastric organs and creates discomfort and can lead to more serious complications.  You apparently require surgery for this.  Also, there is the possibility of ulcerated colitis, though this remains unconfirmed.  You are maintained on a hormonal drug that assists with endometriosis. The letter from your GP, Dr Adam Skidmore, confirms that further testing will be required for your gastrointestinal problems. I take these matters into account.  
Bugmy principles
48	I also accept as submitted on your behalf that Bugmy principles have application in your case.  In other words, I accept that you have suffered childhood deprivation that is relevant to an appropriate evaluation and reduction of your moral culpability. While I do not consider this is directly or causally related to your offending, I accept that your exposure to disadvantage, trauma and abuse as a child and during your formative years is a relevant consideration and has had its impact. 
Prospects of rehabilitation
49	As to your prospects of rehabilitation Ms Titar, in all the circumstances I accept that they are excellent. Mr Ball observed that you presented as 'intelligent and high functioning'.  
50	You have clearly demonstrated a capacity to rebuild your life.  You no longer work in the industry connected with your offending. In 2020 for just under one year you worked for Ultra Project Services, a project manager and construction company based in Wangaratta.  The general manager of the company, Mr John Broz, describes you as 'diligent, hardworking and innovative'.  You left the company to pursue your passion of being a carpenter working on construction projects. You have full time secure employment in your new trade as a carpenter and part time employment as a night shelf stacker in a supermarket.   
51	You currently consult a psychologist, which was initially under a mental health care plan.  You have attended since August 2022 for over 18 sessions. You report that this therapy 'has helped a lot'. In her letter clinical psychologist Robyne Slade confirms your attendance on her practice.  She also confirms that you have been 'punctual and attentive' during consultations and have 'pursued [your] "homework" tasks appropriately and consistently'. In Ms Slade's most recent letter to the Court she confirms since June of this year a further nine attendances with your next appointment on 23 November 2023.  
52	You have also previously consulted with a drug and alcohol nurse. You were initially referred for support in alcohol dependence to the Albury Community Health Centre in June 2022. Since that time, you have attended an initial assessment and a further 18 sessions.  You have continued this on a bimonthly basis with your last session being on the 21st of this month.  
53	You reflect on your offending and you have indicated to Mr Ball that 'I don’t understand why I did it'.  'I should have just stopped but I didn't'.  Your Counsel points to your general circumstances, diagnosed mental health conditions and your excessive use of alcohol to manage stress during the period of your offending. Obviously, Ms Titar, you offended over a sustained and protracted period, and you profited financially.  Nothing concrete, such as financial need or a causal nexus between your offending and your mental health could be proffered to explain your offending.  I take into account the general context, as outlined by your Counsel, and your circumstances.  As to the possibility of other triggers, it is hoped and expected that continued targeted treatment may assist in you developing further insight and awareness. Mr Ball recommends that you continue psychological treatment to address your PTSD symptoms and depression.  He also considers that you would benefit from further drug and alcohol rehabilitation.  
54	Many in your local community appear to have embraced you.  Ms Knight, who had attended court, and her family have lived in Howlong for decades.  She met you in 2022 and speaks very highly of your character as someone who is hardworking and generous.  She has recently welcomed you into her home where you currently live.  She and her family would also like to offer you ongoing casual work assisting with the farm duties once you have served any necessary sentence, to help you back on your feet.  Mr Bros also extends an opportunity for future employment to you.
Sentencing principles
55	The purposes for which sentences may be imposed are just punishment, general deterrence, specific deterrence, rehabilitation, denunciation and protection of the community.  In light of my assessment of your circumstances and your prospects of rehabilitation, I consider specific deterrence and community protection are of reduced significance to the sentencing discretion. Given, however, the lengthy offending period they certainly remain relevant.  
56	I take into account the sentencing guidelines referred to in s5 of the Sentencing Act 1991, where relevant in your case. I also take into account the principles of parsimony, proportionality and totality. While each charge represents separate offending, I need to ensure that the overall sentence is a just and appropriate one for your overall offending.
57	Further, I have taken into account the general sentencing landscape for such offending and I have also considered the cases that were referred to by Counsel. While they have assisted me, particularly in terms of general principles, there are differences and each case ultimately turns on its own circumstances.  
58	The prosecution submit that a term of imprisonment structured by way of a head sentence with a non-parole period is required. Your Counsel submits that a combined sentence, that is a term of imprisonment with a community corrections order (CCO) is capable of reflecting and balancing all relevant sentencing purposes. Guided by the Court of Appeal in Boulton, I accept that a community corrections order is capable of being a highly punitive sentence and can be imposed in cases of relatively serious offending. As the Court in Boulton stated:
‘The availability of the combination sentence option adds to the flexibility of the CCO regime. It means that, even in cases of objectively grave criminal conduct, the court may conclude that all of the purposes of the sentence can be served by a short term of imprisonment coupled with a CCO of lengthy duration, with conditions tailored to the offender's circumstances and the causes of the offending.  [141].  A CCO is capable of operating as an effective general and specific deterrent, depending on its duration and the onerous and coercive conditions that attach to it.'
59	In your case I have concluded ultimately that the punitive, deterrent and denunciatory purposes of sentencing can be sufficiently achieved by a short term of imprisonment, coupled with a CCO of lengthy duration. In all the circumstances, particularly given the gravity of your offending, I consider an immediate term of imprisonment is necessary. I accept that this will be a significant sanction for you, Ms Titar, in light of your vulnerable mental health, lack of previous experience in custody and your current stability and progress in the community. However, I must, and I do, take into account the significant mitigatory factors advanced in your case, along with the lengthy process of rehabilitation that you are currently undergoing. I consider that a carefully structured combination sentence is capable of balancing all the relevant sentencing considerations and purposes and will also best facilitate, rather than impede, your continued efforts, which in turn best serve the community.  Ms Titar, if I could ask you to stand please.
Sentence
60	Synthesising all relevant matters, you are convicted and you are sentenced as follows – 
61	Charge 1 – 2 year community corrections order.
62	Charge 2 - 5 months' imprisonment and a community corrections order of 2 years (combination sentence).
63	Charge 3 – 5 months' imprisonment and a corrections order of 2 years.
64	Charge 4 – 5 months' imprisonment and a corrections order of 2 years. CCO
65	Charge 5 – 5 months' imprisonment and a corrections order of 2 years.
66	The corrections order that I have imposed pursuant to s40, unless counsel wish to address me in respect of this, given it arises out of an ongoing and the same series of offending, will be one.
67	I make no orders for cumulation.
68	So the total amount is five months' imprisonment and you will be released then on a two year community corrections order.
69	In respect of that, I also pursuant to s18 declare that you have served three days in custody.
70	In respect of the community corrections order I impose the following conditions:
•	Supervision;
•	Community work for 200 hours.  I offset 100 hours against treatment.
•	Treatment and rehabilitation for drugs, treatment and rehabilitation for alcohol, treatment and rehabilitation for your mental health.
71	In addition to those conditions, Ms Titar, and it will become obvious because we will have it printed out in court, there are core conditions that apply to a corrections order.  Effectively, you will read them with your counsel or your solicitor.  You are required to follow the directions of corrections and you are required to notify them of certain matters, and to get permission in respect of things such as interstate travel.  
72	You can breach a corrections order if you do not comply with its conditions, or if you commit another offence punishable by imprisonment during its operation.  If you breach, you come back to court and I can deal with you for the breach.  It will also be open to me to resentence you and deal with you for these matters.  Do you understand?  Okay, you can take a seat, thank you.
73	Counsel just give me one moment.  I will continue.  All right, I am just reflecting again on the correction's report and they are the conditions also endorsed.  So community work is indicated.  Treatment, rehabilitation, drug, alcohol, mental health, supervision.  
74	My s6AAA declaration is but for Ms Titar's plea of guilty, I would have sentenced her to some two years seven months' imprisonment with a non-parole period of one year five months.
75	Ms Titar, the s6AAA declarations are really designed to indicate and demonstrate to you the importance of taking responsibility and ownership and entering your plea of guilty, as you have, during the time that you have also.  All right.
76	Now counsel, that order will be printed and I am hoping it can occur shortly and I will not have to leave the Bench.  Is there anything further required of me?  I am going to note custody management issues, but aside from that is there anything further?
77	MR ROPER:  Only the adjournment of the compensation order.
78	HER HONOUR:  Yes, thank you.
79	MR ROPER:  To a date that is convenient to Your Honour.
80	HER HONOUR:  We will obtain a date while this is being done.  Perhaps, Mr Richter, either you or your instructor will approach Ms Titar and go through the order with her.
81	MR RICHTER:  Yes.
82	HER HONOUR:  While you are doing that, can you ensure that if she is on any current medication, that you have those instructions because I will have it noted.
83	MR RICHTER:  Thank you, Your Honour.  That has been signed.
84	HER HONOUR:  Thank you.  You will all receive copies.  Now the date for the mention of the compensation order, again Mr Roper noting that your instructor needs to file it today.
85	MR ROPER:  Yes.
86	HER HONOUR:  I presume from what you've said it's been done, but obviously we just need it on our system, so that will be 30 January at 9.30.  Does that suit everybody?
87	MR ROPER:  Yes, Your Honour.
88	HER HONOUR:  It can be a remote appearance, if that assists.
89	MR ROPER:  Yes.
90	MR RICHTER:  Yes.
91	HER HONOUR:  In terms of custody management issues then, I will ensure that the report - I've been referring to it as Mr Ball.  Obviously we all know which report I am referring to - - -
92	MR RICHTER:  Yes.
93	HER HONOUR:  Kennedy, as well.
94	MR RICHTER:  That's right.
95	HER HONOUR:  It's co-authored or co-signed, but in any event, that report.
96	MR RICHTER:  Under Mr Ball's supervision.
97	HER HONOUR:  What's that, sorry?
98	MR RICHTER:  Under Mr Ball's supervision.
99	HER HONOUR:  Yes, that's right, so I might footnote that in my reasons, but that's obviously the report I am referring to.
100	MR RICHTER:  Yes.
101	HER HONOUR:  I will have that attached along with the patient health summary.
102	MR RICHTER:  Yes please, Your Honour.  That's probably the most important one to go.
103	HER HONOUR:  Yes.  And I'll also have noted that Ms Titar suffers and is diagnosed with complex PTSD.  She is on a range of medication, the list of which is with her.  Is that right?
104	MR RICHTER:  That's my understanding, yes.  In fact I think most of her medication is with her as well.
105	HER HONOUR:  All right.
106	MR RICHTER:  But she won't have access to it immediately for obvious reasons, but yes.
107	HER HONOUR:  Yes, all right.  All right, anything further counsel?
108	MR RICHTER:  No, Your Honour.
109	MR ROPER:  No, Your Honour.
110	HER HONOUR:  I would just ask for a moment, we do have another matter, but Mr Richter, would it assist you to speak to Ms Titar here or do you intend to go downstairs?
111	MR RICHTER:  I think I'll go downstairs, Your Honour.
112	HER HONOUR:  All right.  Ms Titar, you heard that your lawyers will attend to you downstairs to speak to you further, okay.  But I think my sentence is clear, five months' imprisonment.  Three days that you have served is to be taken off that, followed by the community corrections order.  Thank you, counsel.  We will stand down.
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